## Thursday, October 13, 2011

### NPR Sunday Puzzle (Oct 9, 2011): A Group of Twelve and a Group of Nine

NPR Sunday Puzzle (Oct 9, 2011): A Group of Twelve and a Group of Nine:
Q: Name something that is part of a group of twelve. Change the first letter to the next letter of the alphabet to name something that is part of a group of nine. What are these things?
Now that I have the answer, anyone care to have a discussion on whether there are eight or nine in that last group?

Edit: My comment was an attempt to mislead people into thinking the group of nine was planets (8 now without Pluto). My hint was "answer" which rhymes with the answers. The starting letters were hidden in care and discussion.
A: Cancer (from the 12 signs of the zodiac) and Dancer (from Santa's 8 reindeer plus Rudolph).

1. Here's my standard reminder... don't post the answer or any hints that could lead directly to the answer (e.g. via Google or Bing) before the deadline of Thursday at 3pm ET. If you know the answer, click the link and submit it to NPR, but don't give it away here.

You may provide indirect hints to the answer to show you know it, but make sure they don't give the answer away. You can openly discuss your hints and the answer after the Thursday deadline. Thank you.

2. Very clever, having the transformed member of the first group of twelve refer to a group of 9 inside ANOTHER group of twelve.

3. Reminds me a little of the 10/17/11 cover of The New Yorker.

4. I will state flatley that this puzzle is so stupid it makes me want to vomit. Maybe it was the reference to one old fur ball in one of the groups - I'm not sure it belongs.

5. I get all the allusions except for wolftone's, so maybe he has a different answer. Or maybe my pants are too tight.

6. I've submitted TWO possible answers; the first of which I'm sure is Blaine's answer, the second of which is a bit more obscure. In BOTH of mine, it's debatable whether the second set is of 9 or just 8.
My answers involve two DIFFERENT sets of 12 and two DIFFERENT sets in which it's debatable whether they are sets of 9 or of only 8.

7. Crito said...

I get all the allusions except for wolftone's, so maybe he has a different answer. Or maybe my pants are too tight.

Crito, I believe wolftone has given a totally different interpretation of the "transformed member of the first group of 12".

wolftone, it's NOT a profession, but a NAME; originally in a group of 8, but one more would be added later.

In this OTHER group of 12 to which wolftone refers, only the 11th and 12th re-use the same root word for both occupation and activity.

8. Crito - I get wolftone's post and I think he has the same damned answer as you. (Hope that doesn't sound too bad). Very clever indeed, except is it actually a group of 78?

The ninth member of the correct group (not part of the answer) is associated with a name that is also a member of another group of twelve, I just learned.

9. Oops, simultaneous posts - nuff said.

10. Not to be crabby, but my first thought was that I could name a member of a group of twelve whose name is also the name of a member of a group of nine. No doubt these names enter into some of the flurry of comments posted before I got here.

As for the challenge as actually given, I can hardly stand the wait for the official answer, since as others have noted, one of the groups in my solution may have changed the number of members.

11. B_D, depends on how you were brought up. I get 73.

With that said, I'm not sure that will fly as the intended answer. Although we may have a hard time letting go, the official number for the second group is eight.

I think I have the same answer as Bob. However, in doing justice to Blaine and his blog, I'll say I have some concern as to the use of the word "thing".

I'll leave you with this: name something that is part of a group of 12. Move the first letter up 2 places and translate to name something that is part of a group of 7.

12. Back at B_D. If we are traveling in parallel universes, then I would point out that the eighth and ninth members of our group have the same name as two of the members of the group of nine, one of which I believe is part of the intended answer.

13. If I am correct, musical clues would be Joe Jackson for first part and Elton John for the latter.

14. @ Blaine: nice misdirection, chief.

15. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

16. I’ve submitted what is obviously the correct answer. I admit I’ve said this before, some weeks solving the puzzle is easier than figuring out some of the clues :) BTW, I see a possible tie-in with last week’s puzzle. Anyone else?

Chuck

17. Blaine,

I know I HAD the answer. I hope the same for you. Musical clue: The Partridge Family.

18. Chuck, yes. I think that is the intended solution but I am submitting a different one where there can be no discrepancy about the number 9.

19. do you think the "eight or nine" distinction makes this puzzle unkosher?

20. Imagine a production of "Annie Get Your Gun" set in royal Britain:

..........................

21. Are we looking for the specific name of one of the twelve things in the group or the general name for any member of the group?

22. Dave:
You put your finger (I hope you washed it first) on exactly what was keeping me from getting the answer until last night. My suggestion to you is to look for a third possibility. When I did that my thinking came into proper alignment.

My musical clue: Johnny Nash.

A regular clue: Apollo Ohno.

23. I think I can get away with saying that it has absolutely nothing to do with Mel Brooks.

24. Bingo! Got it while I was at the shopping mall.

25. Twelve tribes of Israel and the nine Uribes of major league baseball.

26. Peter Mark Richman comes to mind.

27. month and nonth. oh oh oh!

28. Dave:
Which thopping nall? Cingo?
And don't forget Nel Crooks and the Uwelve Dhairs.

29. Oh, and don't forget not to put all your eggs in one casket.

30. KH6 and CNN. Once again there are multiple solutions to this week's puzzle.

31. Musical Clue: American Top 40 (the same as last week!)

32. TB: Lorenzo reminded me that you once used the lyrics I referred to.

33. And Irving Berlin too.

34. Mrs. L, I do not recall when, but I'll think about it.

I do finally get your clue and I'm sure you can see the answer.

35. Testing, testing Good morning, good night

36. A lot of people seem to really hate this puzzle. It might go down in history as one of the worst?

38. Wednesday. Ah. A new puzzle for all.

39. Cancer = Dancer

A really stupid puzzle that was poorly stated and misleading in my opinion.

Clues:

"When I did that my thinking came into proper alignment." Stars in alignment is a hint at astrological signs. I'm not sure if this works properly and actually should be planets, but I don't care about astrology or Nancy Reagan.

My musical clue: Johnny Nash. "I can see clearly now."

A regular clue: Apollo Ohno.
I don't watch TV, but I think I kept hearing that he was on Dancing with the Stars. Sad!

Mel Brooks did a short film, starring Dom Deluise, "The Twelve Chairs." Not a clue, but an interesting aside.

40. I submitted RAM (zodiac) and SAM (Supreme Court Justice).

@Blaine - stuck in the words "justice" and "chief" into a couple posts wondering if you were thinking Supreme Court. Samuel Alito is one of eight "associate" justices. The full court has nine members.

@B_D - if we were talking books of the bible, referencing Luke from wolftone's post, Ruth and Samuel are eight and nine respectively (regardless of whether you use the Catholic or Eastern Orthodox version (hence the difference of 5 books))and also members of the Supreme Court.

41. I think it's interesting that you can consider DANCER to be one of Santa's 9 reindeer (with Rudolph), or one of the 9 ladies dancing (of the 12 days of Christmas).

42. "Not to be crabby" - (too?) obvious reference to Cancer. And "can hardly stand to wait" from the Chipmunks Christmas Song, to nail that indeterminate number of reindeer.

For my non-answer, with both names exactly the same, thinking of Thomas the Apostle and Clarence Thomas of the Supreme Court, throwing in "no doubt" to reference Doubting Thomas.

Now to see what far out answers others came up with!

43. At first I did not understand that each of the group members had an individual name and so that threw me off for awhile. This caused me to lean toward, but not like, Brew and Crew, as in one of a 12 pack of beer and a crew member of a boat with 8 sculling rowers and one coxswain. I did not think this was the intended answer and so I kept working on it.

44. My reference to CNN was Blitzer to Blizen. American Top 40 -> Keep your feet on the ground and keep reaching for the stars (zodiac). Also, it was Irving Berlin's White Christmas.

45. Star Trek (12 movies) Lars, a drill thrall on Planet Trisklion. 9 Planets (if Pluto still counts) & move the L to M= Mars

46. As you recall, I earlier said:

I've submitted TWO possible answers; the first of which I'm sure is Blaine's answer, the second of which is a bit more obscure. In BOTH of mine, it's debatable whether the second set is of 9 or just 8.
My answers involve two DIFFERENT sets of 12 and two DIFFERENT sets in which it's debatable whether they are sets of 9 or of only 8.

Okay. The 1st answer I submitted was the expected one. The alternate answer I submitted was Lars (There's a Lars-Gunnar Pettersson and a Lars Eller who are each forwards on a professional Ice-hockey team.

There are 12 forwards on an Ice-hockey team), and Mars (one of the nine -- only now there are officially only eight) planets in our solar system.)

47. My attempt at a one word clue "Flatley" referred to the "Lord of the Dance" - born July 16 under the sign of Cancer.

Tom W. - Keuffel And Esser? - A sly drool?

48. "Rudolph" was written by May.

How many total gifts in the 12 Days of Xmas?
364, with 78 on the last day alone.

49. Hugh,
Yes indeed, a slide rule! From Madonna's top hit, Little Star, "You are a treasure to me." My slide rule was a treasure to me because it got me through engineering college before the first scientific calculator (HP35) was marketed.
Tom W.
Î¤Î’Î , 1971

50. I also alluded to Katashi Nose because: "Rudolph with your nose so bright, won't you guide my sleigh tonight"? Has anyone out there heard from T32C?

51. Tom W.

I had a model 360 before IBM to stash in a ring binder - avoiding the hip holster. My HP35 set me back \$400 as I recall. It still works, but I have stopped improvising battery packs.

Î˜Îž 1952

52. Hugh,
OK on RPI (W2SZ). A fine engineering college. I remember programming the IBM 360 in FORTRAN with punched cards. It was tedious, but it got the job done. The correct title of the song was Madonna's Lucky Star (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xthyv9PjjsY), worth watching again. Now we have Lady Gaga to entertain us. I don't mind. Life is good here on the west coast of Florida.
Regards,
Tom W.
W1MX '73

53. Tommy Boy said...
Wednesday. Ah. A new puzzle for all.

Sorry, Tommy, you blew it. In the 2nd part of your puzzle, you have to remove not just 1, not just 2, but THREE of the letters to get the full name of the company.

Some may by quick to ask, "But isn't there an apostrophe S at the end of the company name?"
I actually thought that might be the case as well, but still that meant two letters had to be dropped, and when I discovered the answer to the 1st part, I entered *that* name into Wikipedia which gave the full company name; and no, the full company name does NOT end in an apostrophe S, so THREE letters must be dropped.

54. Enya...

Actually, the full name of the company (adopted in 1977 as a result of mergers and acquisitions) is Nestle SA. Similar companies are Total SA, Daimler AG and Siemens AG.

FYI - don't know if you're aware, but there is a link on my puzzle page to the puzzle answer page where comments can be posted.

55. Question: Is there an advanced edition of tomorrow's puzzle? Or do i wait until approx 8:40
eastern time to hear it?

56. My answer was Darth and Earth. Darth Vader (as Anakin Skywalker) was appointed to the 12 member Jedi Council in "Revenge of the Sith" and even though Pluto was demoted, Earth was a member of a nine planet system for over 70 years.

57. Ward, I also submitted Darth and Earth, for exactly the same reasons as you stated. Glad that I wasn't the only one to do so.

Blaine, your clue that was intended to throw us off actually yielded an alternative answer.

58. New puzzle is now out and if the force is with me I have the intended answer.

59. SDB, did Will just use your answer on the air as an example? It's back to the drawing board for me!

60. Funny. I got cancer->dancer, but my group of 9 was "9 dancers dancing" instead of the reindeer. I kind of like it when you can be wrong but still right.

61. Lorenzo:
Et tu, Brute?
A rather rude awakening for me this morning.

62. I also came up with RAM (zodiac) and SAM, but my SAM was one of the 9 members of the Fellowship of the Ring. Do I win a prize for out-geeking DARTH and EARTH? ;-)

63. I saw Cancer as Zodiac, and Dancer as in 9 ladies dancing, in the 12 days of christmas???

For NPR puzzle posts, don't post the answer or any hints that could lead to the answer before the deadline (usually Thursday at 3pm ET). If you know the answer, submit it to NPR, but don't give it away here.

You may provide indirect hints to the answer to show you know it, but make sure they don't assist with solving. You can openly discuss your hints and the answer after the deadline. Thank you.